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Hey guys, i have come up with a list i'm very keen to try out and within my list i field 2 units of 5 shades, one with AHW and the other with GW's.

Question is what size is most effective for shades for competative reasons? I have used a unit of 10 GW shades before and their 20 shots and CC GW crunch was just epic. Is it always best to utilise them in small, harassing groups?

Also, is it best to go both X5 units with AHW or good to go with both loadouts?

Someone did a mathematical analysis, and AHW almost always outperforms GW. It's only when you're fighting T6 or 3+ save units that GW does better, as I recall... and it's very rare you'd be putting a harassment unit up against that sort of opponent and need them to win.

I've had great success using 2 units of 5 with AHW. Two units allows you to cover your own vanguard moves better, and guarantees you'll get to drop at least one unit of scouts AFTER your opponent drops his scouts.

Swedish Comp system comps GW shades harder than ahw. If I am upgrading them, I give them GW first. But most of the time I run them naked. Their main purpose is to secure vanguard positions for my DR and warlocks. Which typically means that they are facing fast cav or things like eagles or other fast stuff. I find that GW provide the biggest deterent against things like that.

In the later stages of the game, they are there to take out things like warmachines and chariots and shoot/harrass other chaff. +2 st is the best all around investment and I include it about 40% of the time.

I prefer using the GW. it gives that extra punch you sometimes need and if you can get a lucky flank charge on something they might do more dmg then you think.

Tho whenever possible I try to take both options. 2x 5 Shades, 1 with AHW and 1 with GW.

At the start of the year I was using them with light armour, but now take AHW. I viewed them as missile only, but they end up in combat most of the time. I'm playing non-ASF opponents and the extra attack on that basis is great vs. non elite opponents. I go with 2x 6 as they're a big piece of my fluff and I like the extra man to keep a decent number for combat after attrition from small fire.

Two units, one of each load up is my preferred.
I have had some success with GW armed units of 7-8 however. They have a little more punch with the extra models.

In larger games, I usually use 2 units of 5 with AHW and 1 unit of 10 with GW.

Searinox Nagharha wrote:Tho whenever possible I try to take both options. 2x 5 Shades, 1 with AHW and 1 with GW.

I do the same (depending on opponents) - I typically buy a unit of each, and then when they set up, you can match them up with what you expect will get the most use out of each setup.

Against armies I know are more heavily armored (chaos warriors, dwarves), I'm more likely to have GW, in weaker armies (rats, other elves, etc) I do the AHW approach. Most often I get one of each.

If I only have room for 1 type, then I go for the GW as it is still good a +2 st. I run a small unit of 5 with 3 in the front and 2 in the back. This will give me 5 st 5 attacks on a single model should I wish to assassinate. But, when I need to I can change them easily to other formations. But typically this is how I run them.

I had a demi-gryph on one wound charge this formation and they took it down. St 5>>st4.

Running this formation with ahw looses out on 20% of your attack capacity.

for 2 units of 5 shades I would take vanilla, w/o upgrades.
such units cannot fight anyways, even if they kill something, they tend to die with return attacks.

anglais wrote:for 2 units of 5 shades I would take vanilla, w/o upgrades.
such units cannot fight anyways, even if they kill something, they tend to die with return attacks.

Sure they can. They still have high WS and ASF.

And yes, they'll probably die with return attacks, but not always. Besides, you can pretty much write off shades as a loss when the battle starts - the trick is making sure they do something useful first

for me fighting is winning to fight another day. otherwise it is pointsink. so I believe we have differencies in definitions, not in the matter of the discussion

If sacrificing a 90-point unit of shades allows me to set up a 500+ point enemy unit for destruction or preserve a 500+ point unit of my own, I consider that a useful exchange.

Consider small, cheap units of shades (among other things) to be like pawns in chess. You don't play to preserve them at all costs. You sacrifice them at need to set up your victory.

Vulcan wrote:If sacrificing a 90-point unit of shades allows me to set up a 500+ point enemy unit for destruction or preserve a 500+ point unit of my own, I consider that a useful exchange.

Consider small, cheap units of shades (among other things) to be like pawns in chess. You don't play to preserve them at all costs. You sacrifice them at need to set up your victory.

exactly.