Druchii.net DE AB FAQ discussions
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:48 pm
EDIT (17 March 2014):
Druchii.net proposes, in anticipation to GW, a Dark Elf Army Book FAQ!
This FAQ was initiated from discussions collected in the present thread.
Most of the time, D.net choses just to recall and explain RAW, as we have no authority to change rules.
I edited out from the initial post most of the substance, now better written in our FAQ, but I left below some references about RAW interpretations.
EDIT (08 April 2014):
See also a comparison with major FAQs here: [FAQ] FAQ v1.0 Comparison
/EDIT
Notes about this thread.
The present army book has no FAQ yet.
However, there are some cases that have been found, where a strict reading of the rules (referred as Rules As Written, or RAW) brings strange results,
to the point that it seems really to be a loophole resulting into unintended effects (Rules As Intended, RAI).
Worst, there are cases when playing strict RAW is highly likely to infuriate DE opponents, leading them to believe that the DE player is pushing rules lawyering too far.
We should keep in mind "The Most Important Rule", BRB p.2, asking for fair play rather than endless rule discussions,
and "The Spirit of the Game", BRB p.3, recalling that the rules are there just as a framework to create an enjoyable game.
For that reason, I feel that Druchii.net should recommend officially to renounce, in some cases, to what RAW tells, strictly speaking.
However, there are some cases when we face ruthless rule lawyer powergamers. In that case, it is good to know what RAW really say. That's our special deterrence weapon, not meant to be used, but still there in case.
There are also reported below some questions which have been raised because of rule misreading, which found the appropriate answer.
If you have other FAQ requests or suggestions, please add below, or better, start a new thread.
Note on methodology.
I have no authority whatsoever in the matter. These are just RAW analysis and recommendations.
If you're not satisfied with this recommendation, of course, nobody forces you to play that way.
Also, you could comment below, or better, you could start a thread with a poll and ask a revision.
Until there is an official FAQ, I expect all moderators to freely update this thread.
-=-=-
ASF+ASF/ASL: ASF don't stack. See RAW explained in D.net AB FAQ.
Hatred (High Elves): Discussion in Hatred: High Elves, updated thanks to Dwarfs here: Hatred (specific army)
p.36 Assassins.
Magic armour: allowed. Stealth in armour doesn't make sense. However, RAW is clear, as recalls D.net AB faq.
Magic carpet: prevents hiding. RAW clear enough, discussion here: Arabian Carpet and Assassins
Hiding in scouting shades: allowed. 1st turn charge: impossible. See here and here and there.
Shooting KB: does not work. Contrary to common sense, but RAW is clear.
Forbidden poisons and magic weapons: compatible. Discussed here. It could have been a loophole, but RAW is clear.
p.38 & 94 Scourgerunner
Not Fast cavalry (RAW). Debate: Scourgerunner
Stand & shoot, or Slow to Fire? No dispute for RXB. For Harpoon, see unconcluding debate in The Scourgerunner. After stiff debate, D.net decision is to consider the Harpoon "Slow to Fire".
Harpoon shoots at 360° or 90°? D.net decision is 90° measuring from base. RAW is arguable; see The Scourgerunner
Armour save allowed, kills several ranks: careful reading of RAW.
Dragging a monster does not change the direction the monster faces. RAW does not tell to change facing.
How many RXB can shoot? RAW is an obvious loophole: 1 Harpoon and 2 RXB could all three shoot, on the same target (BRB p.39).
D.net FAQ corrects that and says that Harpoon must be handled by one crew, preventing same crew to shoot with his RXB.
p.46 Witchbrew.
A tough issue is what happens when witchbrew is given to a unit of which some models are already frenzied, and some are not. See Witchbrew Question
After stiff debate, D.net concluded that superfrenzy is "all or none" of the unit.
Too strict a reading of RAW would lead to exaggerated conclusions, which are not supported by D.net nor Masters Tourney FAQ
Here are debates about frenzy multiplied, or made eternal: Witch Brew duration
If a witchbrew DH charges out of a unit, RAW, the rest of the unit is no longer authorized to declare charge, despite being technically still frenzied for one more instant.
EDIT: same page, see also WE with flaming attacks and dragonbane gem
p.47 Strength of Khaine
D.net cannot support the strictest reading of RAW, an obvious loophole.
Strictest RAW would let mounts reroll except for stomp/thunderstomp (FAQ p.76), or breath attacks (FAQ p.67). In case of a character riding a monster, it would work only so long as the character is alive. Chariot impacts, spells, shooting except breath attacks and except RBT would reroll. RBT debate here.
As it is obviously a loophole, D.net decided to FAQ that SoK works only for attacks concerned by Murderous Prowess.
SoK allows rerolls for models out of 6" bubble, that's RAW. Even if it is difficult to understand how the aura works at more than 6"!
p.47 Will of Gods
This rule creates very complex issues. D.net tried to stick as much as possible to RAW.
Basically, the only way to make the rule work is to consider that the chariot and the unit it has joined are combined all the time, not only when joining & leaving.
Issues: debated here. Combat reform debated in Cauldron/shrine and combat reforms. Stomp/Thunderstomp debated here: Shrine/COB and stomp/breath in CC
COB/Shrine and Beasts attribute debated here, RAW could be argued either way.
Joining skirmishers was FAQed not possible, despite RAW allowing it for the shrine, while it remained debatable and unclear for the COB. Anyway, the Shrine would not be able to double-march and shoot even if it had been able to join skirmishers.
p.48 Shrine & Medusa: No real issue, just RAW made clear.
p.52 Kharibdyss.
Ld rerolls when the opponent is in range of his BSB cancel out each other.
Feast of Bones has been discussed in Feast of Bones against units and Feast of Bones.
Following too closely RAW leads to something complex and not practical.
D.net FAQ is what is the closest to RAW while being more practical.
p.58 Lokhir Fellheart: Mostly RAW made clear.
However, Lokhir attacking an enemy who is already in a challenge can be debated with a RAW loophole. Here, RAI is clear enough.
p.59 Kouran's armour: RAW has been debated here but seems clear.
p.60 Tullaris special rule: Same issues as for Witchbrew, same conclusions.
p.61 Dark Magic: RAW recalled.
p.62 Magic object Chillblade: RAW recalled: Attacks autowound, does not mean autohit.
p.62 Magic object Cloak of Twilight: RAW recalled.
p.63 Duplicating spells via Tome of Furion: Discussion in Duplicating spells via Tome of Furion
RAW does not really prevent knowing the same spell twice on a wizard thanks to ToF, but that creates problems when casting.
D.net FAQ prohibits it and there's no problem.
Erratum, p.91 Corsair's options.: Some translations errors have been mentioned in Spanish.
The rule is that corsairs must all take either AHW or RHB, but not both, making them effectively 11 pts per model.
FYI, see also New ETC-FAQ (including new Dark Elves)
Druchii.net proposes, in anticipation to GW, a Dark Elf Army Book FAQ!
This FAQ was initiated from discussions collected in the present thread.
Most of the time, D.net choses just to recall and explain RAW, as we have no authority to change rules.
I edited out from the initial post most of the substance, now better written in our FAQ, but I left below some references about RAW interpretations.
EDIT (08 April 2014):
See also a comparison with major FAQs here: [FAQ] FAQ v1.0 Comparison
/EDIT
Notes about this thread.
The present army book has no FAQ yet.
However, there are some cases that have been found, where a strict reading of the rules (referred as Rules As Written, or RAW) brings strange results,
to the point that it seems really to be a loophole resulting into unintended effects (Rules As Intended, RAI).
Worst, there are cases when playing strict RAW is highly likely to infuriate DE opponents, leading them to believe that the DE player is pushing rules lawyering too far.
We should keep in mind "The Most Important Rule", BRB p.2, asking for fair play rather than endless rule discussions,
and "The Spirit of the Game", BRB p.3, recalling that the rules are there just as a framework to create an enjoyable game.
For that reason, I feel that Druchii.net should recommend officially to renounce, in some cases, to what RAW tells, strictly speaking.
However, there are some cases when we face ruthless rule lawyer powergamers. In that case, it is good to know what RAW really say. That's our special deterrence weapon, not meant to be used, but still there in case.
There are also reported below some questions which have been raised because of rule misreading, which found the appropriate answer.
If you have other FAQ requests or suggestions, please add below, or better, start a new thread.
Note on methodology.
I have no authority whatsoever in the matter. These are just RAW analysis and recommendations.
If you're not satisfied with this recommendation, of course, nobody forces you to play that way.
Also, you could comment below, or better, you could start a thread with a poll and ask a revision.
Until there is an official FAQ, I expect all moderators to freely update this thread.
-=-=-
ASF+ASF/ASL: ASF don't stack. See RAW explained in D.net AB FAQ.
Hatred (High Elves): Discussion in Hatred: High Elves, updated thanks to Dwarfs here: Hatred (specific army)
p.36 Assassins.
Magic armour: allowed. Stealth in armour doesn't make sense. However, RAW is clear, as recalls D.net AB faq.
Magic carpet: prevents hiding. RAW clear enough, discussion here: Arabian Carpet and Assassins
Hiding in scouting shades: allowed. 1st turn charge: impossible. See here and here and there.
Shooting KB: does not work. Contrary to common sense, but RAW is clear.
Forbidden poisons and magic weapons: compatible. Discussed here. It could have been a loophole, but RAW is clear.
p.38 & 94 Scourgerunner
Not Fast cavalry (RAW). Debate: Scourgerunner
Stand & shoot, or Slow to Fire? No dispute for RXB. For Harpoon, see unconcluding debate in The Scourgerunner. After stiff debate, D.net decision is to consider the Harpoon "Slow to Fire".
Harpoon shoots at 360° or 90°? D.net decision is 90° measuring from base. RAW is arguable; see The Scourgerunner
Armour save allowed, kills several ranks: careful reading of RAW.
Dragging a monster does not change the direction the monster faces. RAW does not tell to change facing.
How many RXB can shoot? RAW is an obvious loophole: 1 Harpoon and 2 RXB could all three shoot, on the same target (BRB p.39).
D.net FAQ corrects that and says that Harpoon must be handled by one crew, preventing same crew to shoot with his RXB.
p.46 Witchbrew.
A tough issue is what happens when witchbrew is given to a unit of which some models are already frenzied, and some are not. See Witchbrew Question
After stiff debate, D.net concluded that superfrenzy is "all or none" of the unit.
Too strict a reading of RAW would lead to exaggerated conclusions, which are not supported by D.net nor Masters Tourney FAQ
Here are debates about frenzy multiplied, or made eternal: Witch Brew duration
If a witchbrew DH charges out of a unit, RAW, the rest of the unit is no longer authorized to declare charge, despite being technically still frenzied for one more instant.
EDIT: same page, see also WE with flaming attacks and dragonbane gem
p.47 Strength of Khaine
D.net cannot support the strictest reading of RAW, an obvious loophole.
Strictest RAW would let mounts reroll except for stomp/thunderstomp (FAQ p.76), or breath attacks (FAQ p.67). In case of a character riding a monster, it would work only so long as the character is alive. Chariot impacts, spells, shooting except breath attacks and except RBT would reroll. RBT debate here.
As it is obviously a loophole, D.net decided to FAQ that SoK works only for attacks concerned by Murderous Prowess.
SoK allows rerolls for models out of 6" bubble, that's RAW. Even if it is difficult to understand how the aura works at more than 6"!
p.47 Will of Gods
This rule creates very complex issues. D.net tried to stick as much as possible to RAW.
Basically, the only way to make the rule work is to consider that the chariot and the unit it has joined are combined all the time, not only when joining & leaving.
Issues: debated here. Combat reform debated in Cauldron/shrine and combat reforms. Stomp/Thunderstomp debated here: Shrine/COB and stomp/breath in CC
COB/Shrine and Beasts attribute debated here, RAW could be argued either way.
Joining skirmishers was FAQed not possible, despite RAW allowing it for the shrine, while it remained debatable and unclear for the COB. Anyway, the Shrine would not be able to double-march and shoot even if it had been able to join skirmishers.
p.48 Shrine & Medusa: No real issue, just RAW made clear.
p.52 Kharibdyss.
Ld rerolls when the opponent is in range of his BSB cancel out each other.
Feast of Bones has been discussed in Feast of Bones against units and Feast of Bones.
Following too closely RAW leads to something complex and not practical.
D.net FAQ is what is the closest to RAW while being more practical.
p.58 Lokhir Fellheart: Mostly RAW made clear.
However, Lokhir attacking an enemy who is already in a challenge can be debated with a RAW loophole. Here, RAI is clear enough.
p.59 Kouran's armour: RAW has been debated here but seems clear.
p.60 Tullaris special rule: Same issues as for Witchbrew, same conclusions.
p.61 Dark Magic: RAW recalled.
p.62 Magic object Chillblade: RAW recalled: Attacks autowound, does not mean autohit.
p.62 Magic object Cloak of Twilight: RAW recalled.
p.63 Duplicating spells via Tome of Furion: Discussion in Duplicating spells via Tome of Furion
RAW does not really prevent knowing the same spell twice on a wizard thanks to ToF, but that creates problems when casting.
D.net FAQ prohibits it and there's no problem.
Erratum, p.91 Corsair's options.: Some translations errors have been mentioned in Spanish.
The rule is that corsairs must all take either AHW or RHB, but not both, making them effectively 11 pts per model.
FYI, see also New ETC-FAQ (including new Dark Elves)