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RBT in 8th 
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Noble
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pros :

More ranks for single shoot !


resistance to normal shooting(S3 , S4)

..................................................................
Math hammer

The chance to wound RBT with s3 s4 shooting :

7th :

1/3<random> 1/2 (wound with S3) = 1/6
.................... 2/3(wound with S4) = 2/9

8th :
1/6(wound)
...................................................................

Cons :

CAUSE PANIC

W 2

Easy to destroy with close combat(6 models can attack it compare to 4 in 7th )

Easy to destroy with cannon (no more randomized)


Conclusion :

with the (1) roll 6 = wound (2) increased T value of many unit , I dont think RBT are a good choice in 8th edition , I would rather buy 6 shades with AHW for almost same points ;)


Last edited by Undeadcatd on Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:56 am, edited 3 times in total.



Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:22 am
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Warrior

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Hmm... guess I'm not blowing $50 on 2 RBT

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Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:28 pm
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Dark Rider

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It could still be usefull if deployed on top of a tower or something like that :P


Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:32 pm
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c_freman wrote:
It could still be usefull if deployed on top of a tower or something like that :P


Which you can't do. Park it on a hill and snipe at light troops and loose characters is all its good for.

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Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:59 pm
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Yes you can, you just can't move it during the course of the game if you do.

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Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:07 pm
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Dark Rider

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Exactly. You can deploy it on top of a tower, for instance, but you can't move it.


Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:26 pm
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Cold One Knight
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Well... 6 shades is worse than one RBT in many ways.

1. S3 shooting vs. S6 or S4 extra-armor-piercing. A RBT does like twice as much damage against Chaos Knights as shades. A RBT poses a real danger to dragons and tough things.

2. Range. A RBT poses a threat to things much further away than shades do. That mage hiding in a unit of bowmen 32" away? Your RBT can shoot him without being in range of the bowmen, the shades would have to run up where the enemy can charge/shoot him to do anything.

3. Survivability. 6 shades are only T3 no-armor-save. They can be dispatched with a single fireball or RBT multi-shot pretty easily. A fireball killing shades on 3+ needs a 6+ to put a wound on the bolt thrower.

A RBT is worse than 6 AHW shades in close-combat, but shades aren't cost-effective to use in combat anyway. Plus, the RBT has so much longer range that it shouldn't be engaged in close combat without the enemy sacrificing a whole lot for it.

The only Major downside I see to using RBT instead of shades is that, because it's better, the RBT is Rare and thus occasionally competes with our Hydra for Rare %.

The hydra is an ungodly awesome killing machine. 175 points for 7+2d6 S5 attacks and d6 strike last S5 attacks. T5, 5 wounds, 4+ save, 4+ regeneration. That's a possible 25 strong attacks in a single turn.

In many cases it's not an issue, such as at 2k you could afford
2 Hydras + 1 RBT and be within your Rare allowance. Just if you use any more than 1 RBT, you'd have to drop one hydra.


Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:36 pm
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@Timz; and the Hydra has eternal hatred (its one of our only 'creature' profiles to include the rule...) 8)

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Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:39 am
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UndeadcatD wrote:
pros :

More resistance to normal shooting(S3 S4 etc)

..................................................................
Math hammer

The chance to wound RBT with s3 s4 shooting :

7th :

2/3<random> 1/2 (wound with S3) = 1/3
.................... 2/3(wound with S4) = 4/9

8th :
1/6(wound)
...................................................................



Do your mathhammer again. Against S3 shooting, its a wash. Ranged attacks have the same lethality against the RBT in 7th and 8th Edition. Against ranged attacks at S4, RBTs have less survivability than in 7th ed. (1/6 chance of wounding the RBT with 2 wounds - the crew - in 8th ed. versus 3 wounds - the war machine - in 7th ed.). Certainly in 7th ed. one-third of the ranged hits were resolved against the crew rather than the war machine itself, meaning ranged attacks needed three 6's or two wounds on the crew to put it out of commission, spreading out the damage amongst 5 wounds. Now S4 ranged attacks only require two 6's to wound.

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Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:18 am
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Noble
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@asikari
edit that , forget about 1/3 not 2/3 will allocate to crews

according to my memory , hit of 5,6 will allocate to crew on 7th , not just 6.
so , RBT still got more resistance to S4 shooting than 7th
it's crew that important.

7th
1/3 2/3 = 2/9 = 9 hits to kill the crew and disable them
8th
1/6 = 12 hits to disable RBT

correct me if anything wrong :D


Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:54 am
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Redid my math. Your numbers work. Somehow it just seems like it will be easier to take out the crew now with S4 or higher attacks. Not that there are huge numbers of those out there.

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Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:56 pm
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As I posted in another thread, I will be using RBTs much less than I used to. It's not that RBTs really got worse, in my opinion, but that crossbowmen got much better. They are able to fulfill a similar role in most respects, as well as being able to fight and count towards Core.

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Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:25 pm
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RBTs definitely got worse. Only in that they now have 2 wounds and a 6+ armor save. Goblin shooting can take down an RBT now.


Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:38 am
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Noble
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phierlihy wrote:
RBTs definitely got worse. Only in that they now have 2 wounds and a 6+ armor save. Goblin shooting can take down an RBT now.


no ,7th or 8th, it take same amount of hits to take it down


Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:21 am
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Cold One Knight
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I for once always loved our RBTs... Altough sometimes they prove absolutely useless (thanx to cursed dice gods) they tend to change your opponents playstyle and deployment...

Either way I find them reliable enough, in this edition as in all before..

I never leave home without at least 2.. Still perfect for evaporizing those fast troublesome elements and big badass stuff.

Noone likes to be shot with RBT... I for one know that... :D

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Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:36 am
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Check out p111 in the really big red book(rbrb) you need two crew to shoot it now so one wound and it's useless major bummer.

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Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:45 am
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hack n slash wrote:
Check out p111 in the really big red book(rbrb) you need two crew to shoot it now so one wound and it's useless major bummer.


ya , just saw that on warseer . Maybe it will get some FAQ.But before that I'm not going to use that junk :roll:


Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:48 am
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I think there was similar rule before which reduced the rate of fire of warmachines in general when crew was at below 50%...

However it didn't influence our precious RBT... I'd like to think that will stay, more so since we have only 2 crewmen...

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Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:21 am
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Rending Star
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hack n slash wrote:
Check out p111 in the really big red book(rbrb) you need two crew to shoot it now so one wound and it's useless major bummer.


OUCH!

Do I see that right, that only bolt throwers have this? All the other warmachines work perfectly fine to the last man (not even the "shoot every other turn" when the crew is reduced below half)?


Though, strictly by the book, this only applies to single shots, because only then you are refered to the rulebook bolt thrower. The volley shot has its own rules, which are not limited by number of crew in any way. ;)

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Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:23 am
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That's splitting some pretty fine hairs, isn't it?


Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:10 pm
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Not really, actually.

An RBT is not a Bolt Thrower, it's a seperate type of warmachine.

It shouldn't have that limit at all (for neither type of shooting). And I'm reasonably sure, that in the end this is exactly how it will work.

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Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:38 pm
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Eesh. Whatever the case, definitely another black mark against bolt throwers. I'll be looking to a Rending Star/Manbane Assassin, Shades and repeater crossbowmen for my Shooting Phase needs.

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Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:26 pm
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Ok. I need to take a stand for my boys that are taking a beating. I'm reading just the RBRB, because I can't get the FAQ @ work.

1st paragraph is an explanation of how it works in general- it is fluff text.

Descriptors have changed to 1 shot, Multiple wound (D3) item. Still says nothing about a penalty.

Normal To Hit penalties (and probably the whole "roll another die on 6 to hit 7-9 T creatures... but that's a guess)

Resolution for the RBT appears to be similar to a cannonball (I think. only been hit by 4, and was too busy crying at the time) in which you may hit the Front Rank, or the Back Rank. this Rank is hit with S6 hit.-1 (cumulative) to each Rank after that as per Illustration C on the page (S6, S5, S4, S3, S2)

BUT ONLY if a target in the Rank has been slain. The only diminutive to this is "If it's 5 or more models, a Champ or Character is not hit"

they have the War Machine Rule- only 6 (or 3 mounted, or a guy on a dragon) MODELS can beat on it (so get reinforcements in on it FAST) and are counted IBC (p. 110), 109 says Move OR Fire/ Slow to Shoot depending on the RBT notations, Crew does not count for Cover or blocking LOS, and cannot be Charged or attacked separately.. aaaaaaand the Machine always FAILS every test, except T & L.

WHERE are all the rumours coming from?

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Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:19 pm
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The faq should have made a note about RBTs; NOTE: RBTs are now completely worthless. Replace them with either 10 crossbowmen or a DoW cannon which is stronger, cheaper, has more wounds and does d6 damage!!!

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Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:37 pm
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On the flipside enemy war machines are now easier targets for our bolt throwers I believe.

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Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:14 am
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