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How fun/viable will the all-monster army be? 
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Noble
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:10 am
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I refer to the Dreadlord/Sorceress on Dragon, BSB on Manticore and 2 Hydra lists. I think they could be fun to play, but how would enemies feel?

Did anyone play this in the old edition that can shed some light?

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Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:12 pm
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Black Guard
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I tried dragon+manti+two hydra in the old rules but it was too lopsided. I ran roughshod over some armies (especially classic "balanced infantry" lists) but died horribly vs dwarves, extreme magic, or skink hordes.

This lead me to try double manti with a high sorc lvl 3 for D which didn't work very well because protecting two expensive fragile flyers was too difficult unless I had really good terrain.

The new book opens up much better options though. There are better protective items for sorceresses, there is the sorceress dragon option, all of which needs exploration.

As for opponent's sentiments, I've always gotten positive feedback. People like killing monsters and they always get to kill several plus the hydras used to be marginal meaning it's hard to complain about the list.

Now the landscape is very different. The hydra is now a figurative beast as well as a literal one and having two might fetch a reaction similar to two treemen (OK, maybe not that bad) or two coaches in the old days. In fact I think most of the hardest DE lists might well include two hydras and so the army may seem more excuse than art.

One thing you won't have to worry so much about any more is complaints about terror. Between demons and VC everyone should be tooled to cope with psychology.

I'm hoping for an update of Rakarth.

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Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:36 pm
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Noble
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I think it is viable now. Before now, monsters were just too expensive. But now, it should work.

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Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:09 pm
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Noble
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viable? sure!
Fun? Oh hell no! :lol:

going up against 4 terror causing monsters.. 2 of which are flying, 3 of which have good breath weapons. and all of which kick ass in Close combat.
How are you gonna have fun going up against that? Magic still won't work well cause you can put MR on the ridden monsters and the ring of hotek on a champion to protect everyone else... Shooting might be a bit troublesome, but with that many dangerous targets you'd have to either split fire and do barely anything or take down one at a time and let the other 3 rampage your lines as they please...

yeah.. no fun. :P

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Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:15 pm
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Assassin
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I played this type of list in last edition and won most of my games with it, only lost against dwarves and had a draw against wood elves. (only used 1 hydra but sometimes threw a giant in as well) I even beat a storm of chaos deamon list with plenty of magic.

I don't think it is too over the top. I have plaved one game with this type of list using the new book and won a minor victoy over a fairly balanced albeit magic heavy skaven list. (still only one hydra)

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Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:34 pm
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There are plenty of players who are programed to look at a list with more then one big scary looking model and cry 'cheese'... Personally i think its more that people dont always understand dealing with large creatures, they are more comfortable whittling down large units of weaker individuals then tackling monsters who keep dealing out death until they croak.

Sure you have an advantage in some areas, and more so now with Null shards to make it a decent anti-magic list, it could well become one of the infamous overpowered lists like gunlines and SAD and treemen... but after years of scraping up minor victories and feeling proud about it, its about darn time!

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Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:09 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard
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I love playing with mine. My opponents say it is a hard list but not as bad as it could be with lots of magic and shooting.

http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=55226&highlight=

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Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:10 pm
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Lord of Khorne
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Sometimes it just won't work. Powerful, yes, but a cagey player can keep things like dragons off their flanks and eventually break such armies down with combat res (VC in particular).

D'jihurccen wrote:
but after years of scraping up minor victories and feeling proud about it, its about darn time!


...to get moaned about like everyone else? :lol:

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Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:23 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Im planning on turning my DE army into a Kharond Kar list. I love the new Hydra, so Ill be getting two of them. Does anyone know if Beastmasters are still HQ and can take a Manticore? If so how many HQ choices does it take up?

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Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:31 am
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Hmm, I like the look of such a list, would be great to paint and be breathtaking on the battlefield when painted!!

And of course it would kick butt, only thing I might do is add some harpies in, though I have never used before so can anyone tell me if this is worth doing, or are they fairly pointless? :?

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Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:06 pm
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Harpies are going to be great.
Core, cheap, extremely agile as flying units, they are able to spread a cover for protecting other units. Now, they do not panic anybody except other harpies. As skirmisher, they can charge 360°, making a threat not to be discarded.
Excellent to take as units of 5.

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Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:31 pm
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Demetrius the Betrayer wrote:
Im planning on turning my DE army into a Kharond Kar list. I love the new Hydra, so Ill be getting two of them. Does anyone know if Beastmasters are still HQ and can take a Manticore? If so how many HQ choices does it take up?


There are no Beastmaster characters anymore.

However, the new Noble (Called a Master) can ride a Manticore now, and can be equipped with a Beastmaster's Scourge. There's also a magical scourge that give the user's attacks a strength of 5. So you could technically build a beastamaster themed hero if you want.

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Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:44 pm
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Dragon Lord
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And Beastmaster Apprentices who used to goad the hydra got promoted to full Beastmasters now with 2 attacks each ;)

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Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:18 pm
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I used to run a dragon manti 2 Hydra, 2 COC and COK list with 3 x d.Riders,

its what took me to the druchi lands first off, well that and the cauldron of blood

its was always fun I decimated Khorne lists as i could pull them all over, gun lines wernt to bad as i could get the flanks easy dwarfs were hard as you still cant hit em in the front. the worst i played was lizard with the slan and beast cowers.

Im thinking of doing the same list again maybe even with 2 manti's and a master in thier on peggy for war machine hunting, Why waste a dragon on 2 high elfs ?


Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:31 pm
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Warrior
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Calisson wrote:
Harpies are going to be great.
Core, cheap, extremely agile as flying units, they are able to spread a cover for protecting other units. Now, they do not panic anybody except other harpies. As skirmisher, they can charge 360°, making a threat not to be discarded.
Excellent to take as units of 5.


Thx :D

That really helped, If will definatly have to get some harpies at some point!!
Even I don't do a beast army!!!

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Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:05 pm
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Noble
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I love the idea and I'm thinking I might try one in a few
friendly games

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Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:36 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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i'll be running a beast list, but personally the fun comes from having different beasts, so it'll be hydra and giant or ogres instead of 2 hydras. for me, the beasts are what the druchii are all about. i think lots of people will enjoy playing a different army. you may get some cheese comments, but you get that allot of the time unless you field a losing list. have a play and see what its like. just don't play with it all the time, cause then people will get feed up. unless you see a daemon list. then make sure you play with the cheesiest list possible. there fault for going daemon!

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Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:41 pm
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Roleplaying Deity
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im thinking of running 2 hydras with either a manticore or a dragon, but i feel having 4 beasts is too much for 2000 points. A manti, 2 hydras and 2 pegasi should go down nicely though :evil:


Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:55 pm
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Noble
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Damn, and here I was thinking that dragon, 2 mantis and 2 hydras would be good and proper, but I suppose I need some staying power.


Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:03 pm
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Noble
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But doesn't a Manticore take up an additional Hero
slot, meaning you'd have to be playing at least 4k
to pull that off

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Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:09 pm
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Noble
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I've been reading through the new book, and I have not yet found anything stating that any of the monsters take up additional character slots, under the monster entry nor under the entries in the army lists. Monsters do not take up additional slots in other 7th edition army books. Why should they take up additional slots in ours?


Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:23 pm
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Noble
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I haven't gotten my book yet, I just have the army builder
that was posted here this week. In that they are an extra
Hero slot, though I honestly found it weird.

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Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:24 pm
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Noble
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That's why I don't trust army builder and stick with Excel Spreadsheets and the army books.


Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:26 pm
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Noble
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Well you are meant to have your army book if you are
playing tournies so you mostly know when AB has a bug

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Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:27 pm
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Mostlyharmless wrote:
I've been reading through the new book, and I have not yet found anything stating that any of the monsters take up additional character slots, under the monster entry nor under the entries in the army lists. Monsters do not take up additional slots in other 7th edition army books. Why should they take up additional slots in ours?


yes they do take up extra slots, in the book bottom of page 91 under character mounts. it even specifies that malekith on dragon takes up additional slots.
its a definate chnage from the empire book at least where kf+dragon only uses one.

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Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:21 pm
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