Upcoming challenge - Hellpit Abomination.

[Silverheimdall]

We druchii have no access to Flaming Attacks other than Lore of Fire and Lore of Metal.. and the Hydra's breath but thats only 1 hit, most likely partial, against the Abomination (50x50 or 50x100 base, still unknown)

I think its pretty clear that when we don't go the magic route, we're somewhat screwed in the flaming department!

The thing is T5 with W6, has Regen and Stubborn, as well as Terror.
Its massive amount of possible S6 attacks can easily turn anything we send at it, running back or smashed.

So, other than trying your luck with Fireballs, what ways do you people think we can deal with that monstrosity?

It can't be redirected since it moves 3d6 in a straigth line, in the direction it desires, its big enough to break ranks and stubborn Ld8 makes it a bit hard to break though not impossible.

One possibility is Chillblade, but I don't really like that weapon and it only has a 1/6 chance per hit to wound the thing and then it can regen that wound to still get its attacks.

[Comrade igor]

Shoot it. Like srsly.

Before you mention the Stormbanner, i know, but shooting is still the best option as the Abomination will rip through a Hydra like nothing the majority of the time, same goes for anything else we have, and the same for most armies in warhammer.

Anyway, it's not the Abomination i'm worried about per se but the fact that its only 250 pts with upgrade so there are still plenty of points left to get a proper army to go with it, and you can bet your left *ehem* .. that there will be a Grey Seer in the army, and a warlock or two backup, that's 6 DD and probably 2 scrolls, so magic isn't the right choice. This leaves us with umm..

[Dalamar]

Lets see,
Slightly tougher than giant.
much more powerful than giant in combat.

Hence. What works against giants?

It will work at 50% effectiveness against Abomination (regen)

Shower it with crossbow bolts and it will die.

I see less problems with putting it down... than with dealing with it again in case it simply get up (and by that time is usually somewhere between your ranks)

[Ehakir]

There you go, BSB of antidoom!!!
This may be one of the ways to deal with him. Other ways include shooting a lot at it, allowing it to eat one unit of harpies each turn, magicing it to death with the lore of fire, maybe pit of shadowing it, using Witch Elf units of 5 models with an additional attack (poison), using an assassin with stars and manbane, ...

Seems like we've got quite a lot to deal with it after all, don't you think?

[Randy]

I guess you'll have to roll really well with both the WE's and the assassin to guarantee a kill, which means they could end up being very expensive road bumps...

I'd have to say shooting as well... buckets of dice. Again I guess, if the storm banner is in play, you'll have to pray that it fizzles out sooner than later... Sounds like they're an army with all the "bases covered".

The new skaven book looks incredibly vicious, but good to see that SAD lists are no longer the obvious choices.

[Dalamar]

Exactly. Abomination means less Warp Cannons, which gives easier reign to our dragons.

[Minsc]

RBT's, RxB's and Lore of Fire. (It's a Large Target, so it's somewhat easy to hit it.)

It doesn't got ASF so when it's wounded charge it with a Hydra/Dragon/Executioners/Witchelves (Poison!)

Hmm, Executioners Axe should probably work pretty well too, just hope your opponent doesn't roll too good on regeneration.


Before you start to *ahem*...whine too much; remember that it's about as hard to outshoot/outmagic as a Hydra. (Hydra got +4 AS, Abo got +1 W)

Also; each Abomination means 1 less Plague Catapult / Warplightning Cannon / Doomwheel.

[Red...]

You do realize it's about as hard to outshoot/outmagic as a Hydra? (Hydra got +4 AS, Abo got +1 W)

Yes, but then our hydra is very hard to kill with shooting or magic. I've played numerous games against high elf armies who have bombarded my hydra(s) with everything they have each turn, only to see my hydra still smiling as it noshes on some asur remains at the end of the battle. I suspect we may have similar luck against this new foe :S

[Malberoth grieftide]

War machines always work wonders. My regular skaven opponent is getting the same treatment from my druchii and my dwarfs. The war machines are going for it. I wouldn't worry about the stormbanner either, it goes on and off more regularly than my houselights.

I cant say i've let a hydra reach my lines intact yet (the one that made it today was on one wound.) What id worry about is the ranked sods that will be scuttling up behind it.

[Sulla]

I'm far more worried about hordes of slaves with their stupid damage dealing rule for when they are broken in combat. I forsee lots of slave columns 1 model wide and 20 deep charging into our elites until the skaven FAQ is released.

[Randy]

The rule states that the number of attacks are based on the number of ranks, so they'd have to be 5 models wide... I don't think it'll be that bad... will it?

With a unit that large all you would have to do is side step it and it spend all game trying to reform to get the charge again

A 20 deep ranked unit would make for some amazing combined rolling flank charges. I hope someone tries it now...

[Zardock]

It isn't rank bonus, it is ranks so what Sulla says is correct, those 20 x 1 ranked slaves will do some stupidly awesome damage.

[Randy]

Doesn't it take 5 models to consitute a rank? I didn't mention rank bonus either.

[Red...]

Doesn't it take 5 models to consitute a rank? I didn't mention rank bonus either.

No, ranks have to be 5 wide to confer a rank bonus, but even ranks of less than 5 count as ranks (they just add zero SCR).

That's why lokhir is so effective against goblin armies (6 ranks of goblins = 9 attacks = smiling lokhir = insane carnage = no more goblins)

[Randy]

Fair enough, then I'm sure they'll correct that in the FAQ.

Until then we had better start numerous threads to work out tactics to counter the hideous 1 model wide 20 rank deep slave units... so so scary...

[Dalamar]

So what do the slaves do that's so horrid?

[Ehakir]

Once broken in combat, they deal D6 S3 hits to any unit within (according to rumours) "short" range. Doesn't seem so horrible to me...

[No one]

Once broken in combat, they deal D6 S3 hits to any unit within (according to rumours) "short" range. Doesn't seem so horrible to me...

it's D6 S3 for every rank so 20 ranks of one model means...

[Minsc]

it's D6 S3 for every rank so 20 ranks of one model means...

Any Skavenplayer who tries this on me will soon be facing 1st-turn charging Assassins out of shade-units and face double hydras+dragon.

Doubt anyone of the Skavenplayers at my club would try it though.

[Dalamar]

Does any unit include skaven units as well?
If so it can be easily exploited to wreak havoc in skaven lines. 20 models deep is a loooooog line.

[Minsc]

Does any unit include skaven units as well?

Yes, the slaves flee and hack & slash at any unit within 6" (or D6"), even other skavenunits.

So yeah, I doubt we'll see any 1x20 units of Slaves.

[Rugi]

So yeah, I doubt we'll see any 1x20 units of Slaves.

Agree

Back to the abomination, I think that dark elves are more than able to control something that moves in a straith line.
It´s probably gonna be faced like any other large targets. Shoot it while trying to delay its arrival, then charge and smack it with strenth 9 or something.

I think that the new skaven won´t be half as good vs. DE as the old one were. WLC got nerfed, no more skirmishing jezzails, ratling guns have to roll to hit,... We will control their line like no other army will and the first thing that is gonna die will be the abomination (the storm banner being just a minor problem of course :p ).

[Entreri bloodletter]

I think you guys are underestimating the Storm Banner. -2 to hit is a big blow to our shooting even if we do get to roll tons of dice. At long range our crossbows are hitting on 6's and wounding on 6's- not great odds at all. And the way it is written now, it can be activated at the start of any players turn and will continue to stay in play on a 4+. It does not say 1 use only as of now but I expect that will be corrected. So essentially it means for(at least) half the game we could be having those huge penalties to shoot

And for the slave thing I believe its D3 S3 + 1 hits for every rank of slaves. No mention of rank bonus- just ranks. And its range is D6 inches

[Slortor]

Is the storm banner able to be placed on units?

Otherwise we may just have to play the same game as we do with vamps and go for assassination of the BSB. I appreciate that that wont be easy most likely - especially if they kept the 'lead from the back rule' but regardless I think we could do it.

If it can go on units then it becomes harder... but it should be possible to guess i think - then that unit has to be priority one.

[Sulla]

Does any unit include skaven units as well?
If so it can be easily exploited to wreak havoc in skaven lines. 20 models deep is a loooooog line.

Yes, but it is only when broken in combat (if the rumour threads are correct), so the skaven player controls when it occurs by flee! reactions. Plus, the single file was just to illustrate how broken it can be. It will still be plenty powerful vs us with just 5-6 ranks.

It will probably be time to break out the chariots again with all of the new toys skaven have. They are useful vs things like the slave hits and also cheap enpough to be good throwaway toys vs doomwheels and abominations.