Killing Blow Combined with Flaming Sword of Rhuin!

Dante valentine · Post by **Dante valentine** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:51 am

In my last game an interesting question came up:

I blessed my unit of Witch Elves with Killing Blow from the COB and then moved them into position, forcing my opponent into a position where he had to charge them.

During the magic phase, i then cast the flaming sword on the unit, giving them a +1 to the rolls to wound.

So, following the rules, would killing blow count on a roll of 5 or 6? The rule's say that "rolls of 6" which would imply only natural rolls of 6. BUT, flaming sword add's one and can make attacks autowound despite rolls of 1 always failing, implying that the dice roll counts as one higher!

After a discussion, we couldn't decide what would make more sense, so i decided NOT to count 5's as killing blows. (It made little difference, the 21 Witch Elves made exceptionally short work of the 12 Black Knights).

I did check the FAQ's but couldn't find an answer so if anyone could point me in the right direction, i would appreciate it.

Regards

D

Eldria · Post by **Eldria** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:21 pm

Technically you would only killing blow on a 5 as the 6's become 7's most people I know play it the way you did and simply leave it as 6's.

Setomidor · Post by **Setomidor** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:34 pm

Yeah only actual die rolls of 6 count.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:42 pm

I don't think its as clear cut as that. I think there's a good argument to be made both ways. Without a clear rule or faq reference, everything else is just opinion.

Dante valentine · Post by **Dante valentine** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:50 pm

It may also effect poisoned attacks when combined with the enchanted blades.

If it does, a unit of Witch Elves with a blessing from the COB and the two spells would be rather powerful!

D

Handsome jack · Post by **Handsome jack** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:12 pm

poisoned attacks say a natural dice roll of six so +1 to wound wouldn't effect it as far as killing blow is concerned a roll of six would therefore become 7 and it states for killing blow a roll of 6 not 6+ but you would still only get killing blow 1/6th of the time any discussion should be to clarify if it's on 5's or 6's but wouldn't effect the odds of killing blow

Noble korhedron · Post by **Noble korhedron** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:21 pm

Although I don't have my mini-RB with me, I'm pretty sure that anything like killing blow, poison, etc. is done on natural no's - unless a special rule states otherwise. I would say treat 6's or whatever number is the usual as poison/KB as normal and count 5's as 6's for the purposes of 'to wound' rolls but not poison.....

Handsome jack · Post by **Handsome jack** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:28 pm

I looked in the book poison states "natural rolls of 6" killing blow just states rolls a six but I agree it should be played as a natural roll of six and I don't think a case can be made for a 1/3 chance of killing blow, The only argument that could be made was killing blow happens on a 5+1=6 instead of a 6+1=7, but why add the confusion for no change in gaming terms

Dante valentine · Post by **Dante valentine** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:23 pm

I agree that it should only work on a natural roll of a six, yet my opponent came up with a good argument, that is as follows:

The "to hit" chart accounts for rolls that require more than a "6" to hit, and thus gives examples of what you need on 7's etc.

The "to wound" chart only goes up to 6+ no matter how weak you are and how tough an opponent, you will never need more than a roll of 6. Therefore, there is no "7" on the chart, it simply goes up to 6 as this is the highest result possible on a dice.

This was just theory of course and neither of us really thought this was the case (despite it being my opponents argument he was happy to discount it as it would see even more of his Knights die!) but given the rulings in some tournaments, i wouldnt be overly suprised if something like this was agreed on.

D

Katon · Post by **Katon** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:32 pm

I think you are looking at this ruling a little wrong.

The spell adds +1 to your roll to wound. So instead of needing a roll of a 4 to wound with the spell you would need a 3 as you have +1.

The spell doesn’t alter what the dice value is it alters the number you are required to roll to successfully wound.

Lord tsunami · Post by **Lord tsunami** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:45 pm

if the rule says you score a killing blow when you ROLL a six, then it cant be affected by flaming sword, since you do not actually ROLL a six (when you roll a five and add +1). the result is six, but you ROLL a five.

either that, ro the 5s become 6s and 6s becomes 7s, and thus 5s should be KBs, but not 6s

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:46 pm

You're making a distinction that doesn't exist. The rules don't define 'roll' and 'result' in the way that you indicate, so your comments are interesting arguments, but not indicative of a reliable ruling on the issue.

By all means, play it that way as RAI, but unlike for the same issue with poison attacks, it's certainly not RAW.

Lord tsunami · Post by **Lord tsunami** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:05 pm

there is like a hundred concepts that are not really defined in the rules. however "when you roll a six" does not need to be defined by the rules. it is defined by the english language itself.

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:49 am

Lord Tsunami wrote:there is like a hundred concepts that are not really defined in the rules. however "when you roll a six" does not need to be defined by the rules. it is defined by the english language itself.

Agreed. 'Rolling a six' is different to 'rolling a six or greater.'