Hydra and Khari
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
Re: Hydra and Khari
there is no cool looking Beastmaster option, it is better for my time to assemble finished product instead of trying to make fine model by my hands
Re: Hydra and Khari
Well, I have been pondering about the monster choices, and sadly I don't see any viable options for the long run.
Sure it's cool and all, but in a tournament setting, they just don't cut it.
Old hydra was durable, and we had tools to eliminate enemy artillery and cripple their shooting quite easily and safely, not we lost those advantages. Also We have cheep troops who helped in soaking up damage, that is gone also, making soft monsters ....well a liability.
Sure it's cool and all, but in a tournament setting, they just don't cut it.
Old hydra was durable, and we had tools to eliminate enemy artillery and cripple their shooting quite easily and safely, not we lost those advantages. Also We have cheep troops who helped in soaking up damage, that is gone also, making soft monsters ....well a liability.
Re: Hydra and Khari
Generally speaking, i agree with your KillerK.
However, light magic, might very well make Hydras and Kharibdyss, viable in tournaments. Assuming that Shadow and Death will continue to be nerfed by comp.
However, light magic, might very well make Hydras and Kharibdyss, viable in tournaments. Assuming that Shadow and Death will continue to be nerfed by comp.
Interesting threads from the past:
BG Executioners Axe List:
Facing Ogres:
Facing WoC:
Effective use of Magic
Tips Using Harpies:
BG Executioners Axe List:
Facing Ogres:
Facing WoC:
Effective use of Magic
Tips Using Harpies:
- Liquidedust
- Highborn
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- Location: Sweden
Re: Hydra and Khari
Scyloc wrote:Generally speaking, i agree with your KillerK.
However, light magic, might very well make Hydras and Kharibdyss, viable in tournaments. Assuming that Shadow and Death will continue to be nerfed by comp.
Just watch the next ETC ruleset give massive comp scores if we use anything but fire or metal on our wizards . . .
My Hobby Thread
Stats since I started playing again in 2013
W/L/D
Total: 16/21/1
vs. Demons: 0/2/0
vs. Dwarfs: 1/2/0
vs. Empire: 2/4/0
vs. High Elves: 0/4/0
vs. Lizardmen: 3/0/0
vs. Orcs & Goblins: 3/0/1
vs. Ogres: 1/0/0
vs. Skaven: 4/4/0
vs. Tomb Kings: 0/1/0
vs. Warriors of Chaos: 0/3/0
vs. Wood Elves: 2/1/0
- Dalamar
- Dragon Lord
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- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
- Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Re: Hydra and Khari
Hydra is no longer the frontal rank and file slaughterer.
Hydra is now a support monster which if not burned down fast, will just come back. I won't be surprised if we see Hydrae often drop down to 1 wound, then have the last threat to it removed (by our superior chaff) and simply get back up to max wounds by the end of the game. Its shooting attack can be rather strong though for my list breath weapon will likely be more useful (since it hits more targets and I shouldn't have trouble with low model count units)
Kharibdyss will need to be protected somehow until it gets in combat, but I think it's our most versatile monster, with thunderstomp it can fight infatry, with High S and potential for even more high S hits it can fight heavy armor, MC and monsters. You just need to be careful where and how you put it.
Magic support will be key in our army. I just wish at least one of our monsters was T6, but oh well.
Hydra is now a support monster which if not burned down fast, will just come back. I won't be surprised if we see Hydrae often drop down to 1 wound, then have the last threat to it removed (by our superior chaff) and simply get back up to max wounds by the end of the game. Its shooting attack can be rather strong though for my list breath weapon will likely be more useful (since it hits more targets and I shouldn't have trouble with low model count units)
Kharibdyss will need to be protected somehow until it gets in combat, but I think it's our most versatile monster, with thunderstomp it can fight infatry, with High S and potential for even more high S hits it can fight heavy armor, MC and monsters. You just need to be careful where and how you put it.
Magic support will be key in our army. I just wish at least one of our monsters was T6, but oh well.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
- Liquidedust
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- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:55 pm
- Location: Sweden
Re: Hydra and Khari
Unless I have miscalculated, at WS3 or 4 and S4 it takes on average 8 attacks to remove one (1) wound on a Hydra.
My Hobby Thread
Stats since I started playing again in 2013
W/L/D
Total: 16/21/1
vs. Demons: 0/2/0
vs. Dwarfs: 1/2/0
vs. Empire: 2/4/0
vs. High Elves: 0/4/0
vs. Lizardmen: 3/0/0
vs. Orcs & Goblins: 3/0/1
vs. Ogres: 1/0/0
vs. Skaven: 4/4/0
vs. Tomb Kings: 0/1/0
vs. Warriors of Chaos: 0/3/0
vs. Wood Elves: 2/1/0
- Dalamar
- Dragon Lord
- Posts: 9675
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
- Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Re: Hydra and Khari
One WS3/4 S4 attack causes 0.(1) wounds on a hydra.
So, exactly 9 attacks with those stats will cause 1 wound.
Kbeast or Hydra on one flank, and Warlocks on another flank (or rear) spells doom to any non stubborn unit.
So, exactly 9 attacks with those stats will cause 1 wound.
Kbeast or Hydra on one flank, and Warlocks on another flank (or rear) spells doom to any non stubborn unit.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
- Liquidedust
- Highborn
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:55 pm
- Location: Sweden
Re: Hydra and Khari
Dalamar wrote:One WS3/4 S4 attack causes 0.(1) wounds on a hydra.
So, exactly 9 attacks with those stats will cause 1 wound.
Kbeast or Hydra on one flank, and Warlocks on another flank (or rear) spells doom to any non stubborn unit.
1 Attack
0.5 hits
0.167 wounds
0.11 wounds after saves per attack
yeah you're right my bad
My Hobby Thread
Stats since I started playing again in 2013
W/L/D
Total: 16/21/1
vs. Demons: 0/2/0
vs. Dwarfs: 1/2/0
vs. Empire: 2/4/0
vs. High Elves: 0/4/0
vs. Lizardmen: 3/0/0
vs. Orcs & Goblins: 3/0/1
vs. Ogres: 1/0/0
vs. Skaven: 4/4/0
vs. Tomb Kings: 0/1/0
vs. Warriors of Chaos: 0/3/0
vs. Wood Elves: 2/1/0
- Dalamar
- Dragon Lord
- Posts: 9675
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
- Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Re: Hydra and Khari
It should also be Warlocks or Sisters of Slaughter to spell doom
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
- Liquidedust
- Highborn
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:55 pm
- Location: Sweden
Re: Hydra and Khari
Dalamar wrote:It should also be Warlocks or Sisters of Slaughter to spell doom
Watch ETC Comp on Warlocks be something like -10 or -15 per model after the first 5 or something
My Hobby Thread
Stats since I started playing again in 2013
W/L/D
Total: 16/21/1
vs. Demons: 0/2/0
vs. Dwarfs: 1/2/0
vs. Empire: 2/4/0
vs. High Elves: 0/4/0
vs. Lizardmen: 3/0/0
vs. Orcs & Goblins: 3/0/1
vs. Ogres: 1/0/0
vs. Skaven: 4/4/0
vs. Tomb Kings: 0/1/0
vs. Warriors of Chaos: 0/3/0
vs. Wood Elves: 2/1/0
- Dalamar
- Dragon Lord
- Posts: 9675
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
- Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Re: Hydra and Khari
Well, I don't play in stupid comp environments so I'm not worried.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Re: Hydra and Khari
the problem with the hydra I see, is if your opponent charges it, he deals a few, they your turn he will also deal a few wounds, if it dies it's over. if not you will get a few back, and then you have to survive the next 2 combat phases.
As for the warlocks you only need 2 units of 5. If you want more, it's for point denial, IMO no longer a good option as the DE will struggle for points, as everything went up by so much (except for the corsairs who went down in price and got better)
As for the warlocks you only need 2 units of 5. If you want more, it's for point denial, IMO no longer a good option as the DE will struggle for points, as everything went up by so much (except for the corsairs who went down in price and got better)
- Dalamar
- Dragon Lord
- Posts: 9675
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
- Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Re: Hydra and Khari
Hence don't get charged. When you're a glass cannon, getting charged is bad.
Hydra will be great for flanking where limited number of attacks can hit it back. Or to squeeze in a corner of two fighting units. It's ultimately a support model that won't do a whole lot on its own.
Corsairs got 1 point more expensive.
Hydra will be great for flanking where limited number of attacks can hit it back. Or to squeeze in a corner of two fighting units. It's ultimately a support model that won't do a whole lot on its own.
Corsairs got 1 point more expensive.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
- General Kael
- Shade
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- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:33 pm
- Location: The land of chill (canada)
Re: Hydra and Khari
Agreed the hydra has become more of a finesse unit, not push forward and win like the old one.
I like the new regeneration rule on him , it reminds me of the way it was back the day (were talking way back).
There are a lot more tactics with him; take a few wounds, run away to regenerate, then back in the fight.
If you can protect him in the beginning, he should be alright. After a few turns the threats to him should be dead. And then he can run around attacking flanks or combi charging. Also we have access to a couple spells that lower enemies initiative giving him a chance to strike first.
I like the new regeneration rule on him , it reminds me of the way it was back the day (were talking way back).
There are a lot more tactics with him; take a few wounds, run away to regenerate, then back in the fight.
If you can protect him in the beginning, he should be alright. After a few turns the threats to him should be dead. And then he can run around attacking flanks or combi charging. Also we have access to a couple spells that lower enemies initiative giving him a chance to strike first.
- Vilicate
- Black Guard
- Posts: 260
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 10:28 am
- Location: In your base, chaffing up your noobs.
Re: Hydra and Khari
I played in a tournament this weekend with the new book.
I ran lots of units that we're talking about on this topic:
High Beastmaster on Manticore:
He was pretty fun. I ran him on a fully kitted Manticore, and with the Charmed Shield and a Dawnstone (2+ Rerollable). He did die in two out of three games, but always after killing his points back; one game he killed the BotWD BSB on a suicide charge against a White Lion Deathstar with Allarielle (before this he ran down 50 Spearmen + Mage after a prolonged Combat), and then he died when I had a Dark Elf-off, and my opponent challenged my honor and I threw him up against a Dreadlord on Black Dragon (before this he killed a 30 man unit of Corsairs). Almost took out the dragon though! We're having a Monster Mash tournament in a couple weeks, and I've been considering giving him a Hydra Blade and seeing how that works out. Lower Leadership to hopefully fail so I get the HKB.
3 Hydras:
These were interesting choices. I lost two of the three almost every game, but I felt like they almost always made their points back before eating it. They still do a lot of damage. I was especially proud of one of them breathing on a unit of Soulblighted Executioners and killing 15/24 or something like that. It was pretty awesome!
1 Kharibdyss
I'm not sure I've figured him out. He's a lot more fragile than the Hydra, just because he doesn't grow wounds back, but he hits like a Freight Train! I got Feast of Bones off once (against another Kharibdyss), which was nice, and he took down a Griffin Noble on his lonesome. I'd definitely take him again, but I didn't really square off against any MC which is where I think he really shines.
I ran lots of units that we're talking about on this topic:
High Beastmaster on Manticore:
He was pretty fun. I ran him on a fully kitted Manticore, and with the Charmed Shield and a Dawnstone (2+ Rerollable). He did die in two out of three games, but always after killing his points back; one game he killed the BotWD BSB on a suicide charge against a White Lion Deathstar with Allarielle (before this he ran down 50 Spearmen + Mage after a prolonged Combat), and then he died when I had a Dark Elf-off, and my opponent challenged my honor and I threw him up against a Dreadlord on Black Dragon (before this he killed a 30 man unit of Corsairs). Almost took out the dragon though! We're having a Monster Mash tournament in a couple weeks, and I've been considering giving him a Hydra Blade and seeing how that works out. Lower Leadership to hopefully fail so I get the HKB.
3 Hydras:
These were interesting choices. I lost two of the three almost every game, but I felt like they almost always made their points back before eating it. They still do a lot of damage. I was especially proud of one of them breathing on a unit of Soulblighted Executioners and killing 15/24 or something like that. It was pretty awesome!
1 Kharibdyss
I'm not sure I've figured him out. He's a lot more fragile than the Hydra, just because he doesn't grow wounds back, but he hits like a Freight Train! I got Feast of Bones off once (against another Kharibdyss), which was nice, and he took down a Griffin Noble on his lonesome. I'd definitely take him again, but I didn't really square off against any MC which is where I think he really shines.